Fate of the People of Ibrahim (pbuh) (Follow Up)
Question:
Salaam
1. Quote:
"The Qur'an is not a book of history. It only narrates those historical events that have a specific message for the primary addressees of the Book. Among these stories, and the most repeated ones in the Qur'an, are the story of those nations who were punished or rewarded after rejecting or accepting a messenger of God. These stories were directly related to the polytheists and the people of the book at the time of the Prophet (pbuh)."
I appreciate the point you are making, albeit Abraham pbuh was important to People of the Book as well as the people of Makkah as they were bani Ishmael and also because of building Kaaba. So I would have thought that the story of Abraham pbuh;s people would have had significance for the direct addressees of Quran.
2. Quote:
"It appears that Ibrahim's (pbuh) mission was not to remain with his original people enough to make them reach the reward and punishment stage. He had a very unique mission as a messenger. The focus of the Book about Ibrahim (pbuh) appears to be mostly on this unique mission, that was, to initiate the seeds of the two nations that later became the chosen nations of God in turn (i.e. Bani Israel and then Bani Ishmael)".
Abraham pbuh gave dawah to his people and Namrud the king. They ignored him and he was put in fire. Once a nation reaches a stage where they decide to kill their messenger is Itmam ul hujjah not reached? For example the night prophet pbuh migrated to Medina the plan was to kill him. Our understanding from Quran is that Abraham pbuh was a messenger and not a prophet and Quran states that messengers always prevail ( over their nations). So are we saying that Abraham pbuh was a messenger but his mission was not to prevail over his nation but to sow the seeds of two bigger nations?
Answer:
Salam,
1. The significance of the story of Ibrahim (pbuh) as far as Bani Israel and Bani Ishmael concerned was the fact that he established the two nations under the same message of Tauwhid (Monotheism) and that the crux of the covenant between God and His chosen nation was communicated to Ibrahim (pbuh), that is verse 2:124. Later these two nations in turn became responsible for delivering the message of the truth to the rest of the world and the covenant played a big role in their destinations. The consequences of following or not following this covenant have been illustrated with numerous examples in the Qur'an. Ibrahim (pbuh) was in fact that messenger of God with whom the Sunnah of the Almighty about chosen nations and their role started.
As far as it relates to Bani Israel and Bani Ishmael, compared to the above, the destiny of the nation among which Ibrahim (pbuh) was born was not that instrumental in guiding these nations (given that numerous examples of other nations have been given).
2. You wrote: "Once a nation reaches a stage where they decide to kill their messenger is Itmam ul hujjah not reached? For example the night prophet pbuh migrated to Medina the plan was to kill him."
Itmam al-Hujjah means finishing of reasoning (by the messengers) so that no excuse remains with the addressees. It is true that some of the addressees of the messengers attempted to kill the messengers. This of course shows the extreme arrogance of these nations towards their messengers, however it is not correct to say that once a nation decides to kill their messenger then this is a sign that Itmam al-Hujjah has reached. These are two events that may or may not have causal relationship.
You wrote:
"are we saying that Abraham pbuh was a messenger but his mission was not to prevail over his nation but to sow the seeds of two bigger nations?"
Two points before sharing my understanding:
- The mission of a messenger is not to prevail over his nation. This (prevailing) is one of the qualities of a messenger.
- We should not treat these concepts like absolute mathematical equations (e.g. Once a nation reaches a stage where they decide to kill their messenger Itmam ul hujjah has reached!)
In my understanding, in a very broad sense, what differentiates between Nabi (prophet) and Rasul (messenger) is that while the first only delivers the message, the second also has some responsibility in establishing the message by acting on behalf of the Almighty in the area where his mission is. Where applies part of this acting on behalf of the Almighty is to judge among the nation they have been sent to through God's guidance and to implement the judgement of God on them.
As you see I prefer to refer to this (judgement and punishment) as an application of a bigger concept, that is, "establishing the message by acting on behalf of the Almighty".
If you agree with the above definition then you will see that it easily covers messengers with drastically different stories, for instance Ibrahim, Lut, Musa and Isa (pbut).
Please also note that I am not saying that the nation of Ibrahim (pbuh) was definitely not punished. There are subtle references in the Qur'an about the punishment of the rulers of his nation and perhaps the whole nation as well (9:70, 21:70). My answer here is about the question that why there are no details in the Qur'an about the destiny of the people of Ibrahim.
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Related Topics:
- Fate of the People of Ibrahim (pbuh)
---------------
July 2013
Salaam
1. Quote:
"The Qur'an is not a book of history. It only narrates those historical events that have a specific message for the primary addressees of the Book. Among these stories, and the most repeated ones in the Qur'an, are the story of those nations who were punished or rewarded after rejecting or accepting a messenger of God. These stories were directly related to the polytheists and the people of the book at the time of the Prophet (pbuh)."
I appreciate the point you are making, albeit Abraham pbuh was important to People of the Book as well as the people of Makkah as they were bani Ishmael and also because of building Kaaba. So I would have thought that the story of Abraham pbuh;s people would have had significance for the direct addressees of Quran.
2. Quote:
"It appears that Ibrahim's (pbuh) mission was not to remain with his original people enough to make them reach the reward and punishment stage. He had a very unique mission as a messenger. The focus of the Book about Ibrahim (pbuh) appears to be mostly on this unique mission, that was, to initiate the seeds of the two nations that later became the chosen nations of God in turn (i.e. Bani Israel and then Bani Ishmael)".
Abraham pbuh gave dawah to his people and Namrud the king. They ignored him and he was put in fire. Once a nation reaches a stage where they decide to kill their messenger is Itmam ul hujjah not reached? For example the night prophet pbuh migrated to Medina the plan was to kill him. Our understanding from Quran is that Abraham pbuh was a messenger and not a prophet and Quran states that messengers always prevail ( over their nations). So are we saying that Abraham pbuh was a messenger but his mission was not to prevail over his nation but to sow the seeds of two bigger nations?
Answer:
Salam,
1. The significance of the story of Ibrahim (pbuh) as far as Bani Israel and Bani Ishmael concerned was the fact that he established the two nations under the same message of Tauwhid (Monotheism) and that the crux of the covenant between God and His chosen nation was communicated to Ibrahim (pbuh), that is verse 2:124. Later these two nations in turn became responsible for delivering the message of the truth to the rest of the world and the covenant played a big role in their destinations. The consequences of following or not following this covenant have been illustrated with numerous examples in the Qur'an. Ibrahim (pbuh) was in fact that messenger of God with whom the Sunnah of the Almighty about chosen nations and their role started.
As far as it relates to Bani Israel and Bani Ishmael, compared to the above, the destiny of the nation among which Ibrahim (pbuh) was born was not that instrumental in guiding these nations (given that numerous examples of other nations have been given).
2. You wrote: "Once a nation reaches a stage where they decide to kill their messenger is Itmam ul hujjah not reached? For example the night prophet pbuh migrated to Medina the plan was to kill him."
Itmam al-Hujjah means finishing of reasoning (by the messengers) so that no excuse remains with the addressees. It is true that some of the addressees of the messengers attempted to kill the messengers. This of course shows the extreme arrogance of these nations towards their messengers, however it is not correct to say that once a nation decides to kill their messenger then this is a sign that Itmam al-Hujjah has reached. These are two events that may or may not have causal relationship.
You wrote:
"are we saying that Abraham pbuh was a messenger but his mission was not to prevail over his nation but to sow the seeds of two bigger nations?"
Two points before sharing my understanding:
- The mission of a messenger is not to prevail over his nation. This (prevailing) is one of the qualities of a messenger.
- We should not treat these concepts like absolute mathematical equations (e.g. Once a nation reaches a stage where they decide to kill their messenger Itmam ul hujjah has reached!)
In my understanding, in a very broad sense, what differentiates between Nabi (prophet) and Rasul (messenger) is that while the first only delivers the message, the second also has some responsibility in establishing the message by acting on behalf of the Almighty in the area where his mission is. Where applies part of this acting on behalf of the Almighty is to judge among the nation they have been sent to through God's guidance and to implement the judgement of God on them.
As you see I prefer to refer to this (judgement and punishment) as an application of a bigger concept, that is, "establishing the message by acting on behalf of the Almighty".
If you agree with the above definition then you will see that it easily covers messengers with drastically different stories, for instance Ibrahim, Lut, Musa and Isa (pbut).
Please also note that I am not saying that the nation of Ibrahim (pbuh) was definitely not punished. There are subtle references in the Qur'an about the punishment of the rulers of his nation and perhaps the whole nation as well (9:70, 21:70). My answer here is about the question that why there are no details in the Qur'an about the destiny of the people of Ibrahim.
---------------
Related Topics:
- Fate of the People of Ibrahim (pbuh)
---------------
July 2013
