Honest Polytheism (Further Follow Up)
Question:
With regard to salvation with honest polytheism, then how do you interpret these verses: 7:172-173
Background of the Question:
The above question relates to one of my answers, where I wrote:
As for the case of polytheism the principle is the same, that is, based on the Qur'an even an honest polytheist can hope for God's mercy and forgiveness. The principle of 'Salvation of Honesty' supersedes the principle of 'Not Forgiving Polytheism'. Having said that, I think pure polytheism is such a huge and obvious false belief that with a little deliberation its flaw will become obvious.
The question apparently considers verses 7:172-173 to be in conflict with the above:
And when your Lord brought forth from the children of Adam, from their backs, their descendants, and made them bear witness against their own souls: Am I not your Lord? They said: Yes! we bear witness lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection Surely we were heedless of this. Or you should say: Only our fathers associated others (with God) before, and we were an offspring after them. Will you destroy us for what the vain doers did?
(7:172, 173)
Brief Answer:
Since your question is very brief, I first answer it very briefly:
If 7:172-173 implies that no human being has an excuse for committing shirk, then why God sends messengers and they stay with their nations for quite some time, in order to further remove excuses for their direct addressees?
Detailed Answer:
Let us first ask ourselves this question:
"Does God punish those who commit a mistake in their beliefs or deeds purely because of not being able to fully understand the truth?"
If we answer Yes to the above, then this goes against any sense of justice that God Himself has put in the nature of human being. A 'yes' answer to the above means that God will punish every one who has a false beliefs or wrong deeds, and in this, He does not differentiate between those who have made honest mistake and those who have arrogantly decided to go to the wrong path. A 'yes' answer to the above also means that God holds people responsible for their wrong beliefs/actions even if correcting these beliefs/actions were beyond their capability. This itself is against the following verse:
... لا يُكَلِّفُ اللَّهُ نَفْساً إِلاَّ وُسْعَها لَها ما كَسَبَتْ وَ عَلَيْها مَا اكْتَسَبَتْ رَبَّنا لا تُؤاخِذْنا إِنْ نَسينا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنا
God does not impose upon any soul an obligation but to the extent of its ability; he alone will get what it earned and he alone will pay for what he did: Our Lord! do not hold us responsible if we forget or make a mistake …
That 'God does not punish for honest mistakes' is in fact an axiom. 'Justice' is one of the attributes of God and therefore the god who would punish even for honest mistakes cannot be the god that Muslims believe in.
This then leaves us with only two possibilities in terms of what the verses 7:172-173 imply:
A. 7:172-173 implies that no belief in Shirk can be an honest belief.
In this case basically what it seems you are implying is that everyone who is Mushrik in reality knows that there is only one God who has no partners, however is arrogant enough to associate partners to Him.
I really do not have much problem with this view. Note that shirk in this verse relates to the ultimate form of shirk, that is, polytheism.
B. 7:172-173 is informing us of a general fact, without implying that this has implications for every case of shirk.
The above then means that while in general human being does not have any excuses in recognizing the one true God, every individual case will be treated based on its own circumstances.
I do not have any problem with this interpretation either.
My own stance is somewhere in the middle between the above. This is why I wrote:
I think pure polytheism is such a huge and obvious false belief that with a little deliberation its flaw will become obvious.
Please do let me know if anything is unclear.
--------
Related Topics:
- Is God Sadist?
- Is God Sadist (Follow Up: Honest Polytheism)?
- Is God Sadist (Further Follow Up: Honest Polytheism)?
--------
July 2015
With regard to salvation with honest polytheism, then how do you interpret these verses: 7:172-173
Background of the Question:
The above question relates to one of my answers, where I wrote:
As for the case of polytheism the principle is the same, that is, based on the Qur'an even an honest polytheist can hope for God's mercy and forgiveness. The principle of 'Salvation of Honesty' supersedes the principle of 'Not Forgiving Polytheism'. Having said that, I think pure polytheism is such a huge and obvious false belief that with a little deliberation its flaw will become obvious.
The question apparently considers verses 7:172-173 to be in conflict with the above:
And when your Lord brought forth from the children of Adam, from their backs, their descendants, and made them bear witness against their own souls: Am I not your Lord? They said: Yes! we bear witness lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection Surely we were heedless of this. Or you should say: Only our fathers associated others (with God) before, and we were an offspring after them. Will you destroy us for what the vain doers did?
(7:172, 173)
Brief Answer:
Since your question is very brief, I first answer it very briefly:
If 7:172-173 implies that no human being has an excuse for committing shirk, then why God sends messengers and they stay with their nations for quite some time, in order to further remove excuses for their direct addressees?
Detailed Answer:
Let us first ask ourselves this question:
"Does God punish those who commit a mistake in their beliefs or deeds purely because of not being able to fully understand the truth?"
If we answer Yes to the above, then this goes against any sense of justice that God Himself has put in the nature of human being. A 'yes' answer to the above means that God will punish every one who has a false beliefs or wrong deeds, and in this, He does not differentiate between those who have made honest mistake and those who have arrogantly decided to go to the wrong path. A 'yes' answer to the above also means that God holds people responsible for their wrong beliefs/actions even if correcting these beliefs/actions were beyond their capability. This itself is against the following verse:
... لا يُكَلِّفُ اللَّهُ نَفْساً إِلاَّ وُسْعَها لَها ما كَسَبَتْ وَ عَلَيْها مَا اكْتَسَبَتْ رَبَّنا لا تُؤاخِذْنا إِنْ نَسينا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنا
God does not impose upon any soul an obligation but to the extent of its ability; he alone will get what it earned and he alone will pay for what he did: Our Lord! do not hold us responsible if we forget or make a mistake …
That 'God does not punish for honest mistakes' is in fact an axiom. 'Justice' is one of the attributes of God and therefore the god who would punish even for honest mistakes cannot be the god that Muslims believe in.
This then leaves us with only two possibilities in terms of what the verses 7:172-173 imply:
A. 7:172-173 implies that no belief in Shirk can be an honest belief.
In this case basically what it seems you are implying is that everyone who is Mushrik in reality knows that there is only one God who has no partners, however is arrogant enough to associate partners to Him.
I really do not have much problem with this view. Note that shirk in this verse relates to the ultimate form of shirk, that is, polytheism.
B. 7:172-173 is informing us of a general fact, without implying that this has implications for every case of shirk.
The above then means that while in general human being does not have any excuses in recognizing the one true God, every individual case will be treated based on its own circumstances.
I do not have any problem with this interpretation either.
My own stance is somewhere in the middle between the above. This is why I wrote:
I think pure polytheism is such a huge and obvious false belief that with a little deliberation its flaw will become obvious.
Please do let me know if anything is unclear.
--------
Related Topics:
- Is God Sadist?
- Is God Sadist (Follow Up: Honest Polytheism)?
- Is God Sadist (Further Follow Up: Honest Polytheism)?
--------
July 2015
